The Lie Industry

October 10th 2011

The Lie Industry

16“Counter-Seeding” Conspiracies, Part of Game Theory Warfare

By Gordon Duff, Senior Editor

During critical times, the media, no longer real news organizations but answerable to special interests much as is American government, in fact, government itself is a “special interest,” is “tasked” with controlling the response of the public.

One of the newest and most effective ways of doing this is conspiracy theory. Author Jeff Gates would call this “Game Theory Warfare.”

——————–

What’s Wrong With This Video?

Long ago, websites were created to parallel questionable news organizations. Fox News, controlled by Israel’s intelligence services, uses is paralleled by http://www.familysecuritymatters.org, a conspiracy site. This is old news.

Similarly, current efforts, timed to the challenge of Israel’s authority over land seized during its wars or the treatment of its Palestinian population tasks its many organizations with stories of Muslim/Christian strife, which have filled the news during the last couple of days. Israel’s new enemy, Turkey, is countered continually. Since Turkey has taken an active role in helping the new government of Libya, Israeli organizations have renewed attacks on NATO as plots against their ally Gaddafi, now a “living afterthought” in world politics. A free Libya or a free Egypt are security threats to Israel, providing you believe that it is in Israel’s security interests to be allowed to continue their holocaust against the Palestinian people.

Wait, I thought the holocaust was against the Jews? Holocaust is a word and the description applies to Palestinians very well but the truth, if such a word can be used, is “relative.” It depends on who is paying for it.

A little over a year ago, articles began to come out exposing Wikileaks as an intelligence operation. What was seen was simple. No matter what was leaked, in the end, Wikileaks parroted Israeli policy and advocated a war on Pakistan and Iran.

They sounded just like Senator John McCain, “Bomb, bomb, bomb….bomb, bomb Iran…” (sung to the tune of the Beach Boys “Barbara Ann”)

First it was found Julian Assange was “sensitive” to the needs of Israel. Then he announced that investigations of 9/11 were a “distraction.” Then his “love affair” with Israeli Likudist Rupert Murdoch of Fox News/Newscorp spying fame came to light.

Then it was found he allowed the mainstream papers to censor leaks, aided by Israeli intelligence. Then a money trail came to light, book deals, payoffs, rich friends, all pointing at Tel Aviv. Then it was learned that many of his leaks were no leaks at all but material invented to be leaked, written by the Mossad, a fact exposed by Zbigniew Brzezinski, of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Then the Lebanon issue came up. Stories of Gaddafi’s wondrous social reforms didn’t match up with 4 decades of history. Some of us worked with Libya and knew it to be very much like North Korea. When it came out that David Welch, top neocon advisor to “W” Bush was working for Gaddafi during the NATO attacks, Welch, now president of Bechtel Corporation, we began tracing down the money that financed activists, journalists and bloggers writing stories, not only favorable to Gaddafi but filled with wild lies about imaginary Al Qaeda cells. This is one of the responses we received:

Gaddafi’s main stooge in Lebanon is the Arab Islamic Council (AIC) led by Shi’i cleric Muhammad Ali al-Husseini (http://www.arabicmajlis.org/). This was set up with funding from Israel and Gaddafi’s son, Saif al-Islam, to
counter the influence of Iran and Hezbollah in Lebanon.

Regarding specific contacts, we’ve seen names (they don’t mean anything to us and won’t mean anything to the average reader). We’ve also seen material showing that the AIC was paid by the Gaddafi regime to arrange for Western “bloggers” and “citizen journalists” to travel to Tripoli when it was under Gaddafi’s control in order to generate sympathy for the Gaddafi family and regime among Western public. These individuals were paid handsomely for their work. What we don’t know is whether they had been encouraged privately by Gaddafi/AIC agents posing as friends or whether they were aware they were being used by the AIC/Israel/Gaddafi. We also don’t know whether these people knew that AIC was a front for Israel and the Gaddafi regime (and perhaps others too).

A few days later, I interviewed Lee Wanta, President Reagan’s White House Intelligence Coordinator. Wanta worked on projects with Libya while awaiting confirmation as Inspector General of the Department of Defense. Eventually Wanta took over operations against the Soviet Union and, in the process, became personal contact for Osama bin Laden.

I questioned Wanta on Gaddafi. I had received reliable information that Gaddafi had worked closely with the US and Israel early on but found the 1986 bombing of Tripoli by the US strangely incongruous. I had heard that Vice President Bush had suggested Gaddafi had a role in the attempted assassination of Reagan two months after he took office and wondered if that may have contributed to Gaddafi falling out of favor. There is another question, one harder to answer, how does one fall in and out of favor is the relationship is clandestine as with Gaddafi? Wanta answered:

Wanta: Gordie, Gaddafi was the protege of CIA Director Richard Helms. Libya was an important operational center for the CIA during the Cold War. Gaddafi had influence throughout the Arab world but, more importantly, he was looked on favorably by Russia. They saw him as more communist than Muslim, a potential ally. Thus, he was vital to American interests and it was vital to our interests that the Soviets never learned of our operations there.

Duff: How about the bombing in 1986, what brought that on?

Wanta: There had been bombings all over Europe, tied to the P2 Freemasons, part of the original Gladio group. Though supposedly centered in Italy, they actually worked out of Switzerland. When I was picked up in Switzerland and held in solitary confinement for 138 days, it was P2 pulling the strings. While I was locked up, they looted $110 million out of accounts our Vienna operation held in trust for the US Treasury. The idea, anyway, was to hang some of those bombings on Gaddafi to provide him cover with the Soviets.

Duff: So they wouldn’t suspect he had been working for the CIA?

Wanta: The deal was, the whole bombing thing was a hoax. We landed teams in there to paint the targets. You know those communications antennas next to his compound?

Duff: Yes

Wanta: We got those first, some airfields, other targets agreed upon with Gaddafi. Our people kept his family safe. (There never was a Gaddafi daughter killed, as most know now. In fact, hardly a day goes by without some Gaddafi relative dying…..he has gone to the well too many times on this one. From March 28, 2011 Veterans Today)

Duff: So my idea about Bush and the assassination, wrong?

Wanta: Totally.

Thus, when we found Gaddafi’s people meeting with Bush former envoy David Welch at the Four Seasons in Cairo, August 11,2012, it was a continuation of history that began in 1969 with CIA Director Richard Helms, acting as Middle East power broker, that and a trail of missing cash, the “Wanta trillions,” the “Rumsfeld trillions” and the Bush flood of debt and collapse. The 258 page dossier on Leo Wanta from International Currency Review is included at the end of this article.

What About That Fantastic Video, It Sure Convinced Me!
Part of “game theory warfare” is very much like any other “con.” A con involves cheating a “mark” by giving someone something “too good to be true.” As with information, it is always good to look at where it comes from. Films have writers and producers. The validity of anything is dependent on who paid for it, who wrote it and what their agenda is.

If you watched the video, you saw names, top Bush officials, top corporate executives, lots of science, lots of facts, lots of documents flashing across the screen but not a single name of who did the video.

There are always simple questions in any con. Game theory warfare is much the same. Who gains? Can you follow the money and if the answer is “no,” they we ask “why?”

Are there names and parties left out, are there facts “assumed” but not in evidence? Since the subject itself is considered a conspiracy theory, is there something about this version that is unique, something that serves some secret purpose or a secret agenda?

Step one is easy. In game theory, you confuse your opponent, not with secrecy but too much information. There is more. You mix facts and lies, placing the names of those really responsible. The guilty are proven innocent because their accusers mask themselves behind a series of “dead ends” and unprovable conclusions.

Even still, there are some glaring difficulties with the video. It has 3 main purposes:

1.There is no mention of Israeli involvement, to the point of systematically censoring higher quality evidence supporting Israeli involvement for unproven speculation
2.It supports the theory that “nanothermite” was used, tying corporations headquartered in the World Trade Center to producers of “nanothermite” when there is no reason for this relationship whatsoever. Nanothermite is a highly “deniable” material, no evidence of its use or existence can be made except in one document which, were it simply only partially discredited, would take down the entire theory like a “house of cards.”
3.Strong evidence exists that there was no plane involved in the attack on the Pentagon and, moreover, that the accused hijackers themselves may never have been on any plane involved. The entire “plane/hijacker” theory rests on far less hard evidence than anything else, but is supported by this video. The script screams out, “Don’t look at the real evidence, look at our garbage instead.”
Then again, timing is always suspect. At a time when the Israeli lobby attacks any 9/11 materials as “antisemitic,” some groups are favored over others, always the best financed, those who pay their writers, those with the most advertisers, and, learned most recently, those who are most “antizionist” in nature but, when critical issues such as 9/11 arise, seem to be providing “cover and deception” for Israeli operations, even through what seem to be “half hearted” attacks on Israeli spying or the powerful Israeli lobby.

The “lobby” is untouchable. 9/11, were the truth to get out, would send America to war, especially if Americans learned that a nation they believed to be an ally was involved and that America had fought for 10 years against the wrong people.

Timeliness? Americans are, in fact, very ready to accept that they have done exactly that, fought the wrong people and are increasingly suspicious of Israel, a suspicion once it is tied to 9/11, will cause an explosion heard around the world.

Game theory warfare? Any pawn can be sacrificed, the Israeli lobby, friendly politicians, “evil Jewish bankers,” it can all be published continually, as long as the dark secrets, the planning and execution of 9/11 by Mossad operations head, Mike Harari and the attack on the Pentagon by a missile are kept secret.

The other problem with the movie is that it ignored the real issues of Building 7. There are no hidden films, no secret FBI testimony as with Harari. Building 7 is hard proof. Even Geraldo Rivera of Fox News went further than this internet conspiracy video:

A key issue separating quality intelligence from simple news or mythology, Libya 1986 or Libya 2011, from reality is access to real news sources and not to “spin.” In Libya we can guess that Gaddafi is with his tribesmen or in Algeria. We know the Turks have moved in and taken on a leadership role.

We know new stories on Libya are written by Israel, desparate attempts to play their “NATO/Al Qaeda” card against Turkey. We have seen Egypt explode in the last 24 hours, the pro-Israeli elements in the Army and security services at war against their own people, trying to hold onto power and with it, keep the millions in graft flowing, the real heart of the Mubarak government.

9/11, the story is simple. Nanothermite did it, that and a bunch of corporations. A plane hit the Pentagon, no wings, no passengers, less than 20 feet long. Building 7 was “CIA,” not a Mossad screw-up.

The hijackers did it, big business did it, magical chemicals did it, everything but what we all know is staring us in the face.

———————————————————

Leo Wanta Dossier

http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/10/the-lie-industry/

65 Comments for “The Lie Industry”Andrew Washer
October 10, 2011 – 10:29 am
“Nanothermite” is suggested by the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth, who are easily the most credible and most valuable 911 Truth group out there. The nanothermite theory also has the benefit of being based on something known and real, thermite, as opposed to distractions such as “Directed Energy Beams” from Jewish, pro-Israel professor Judith Woods – who also censors discussion of Israeli involvement.

I can see no legitimate reason to oppose AE911Truth or to discount the non-thermite theory, considering there’s physical evidence for it. It may turn out to be something else, but it’s the best, perhaps only, theory out there.

It supports the theory that “nanothermite” was used, tying corporations headquartered in the World Trade Center to producers of “nanothermite” when there is no reason for this relationship whatsoever. Nanothermite is a highly “deniable” material, no evidence of its use or existence can be made except in one document which, were it simply only partially discredited, would take down the entire theory like a “house of cards.”

I’m having trouble understanding just what the author means by this, and why it’s included in this article?

tying corporations headquartered in the World Trade Center to producers of “nanothermite”

How does the theory that a specialized type of thermite was used in the demolition of the World Trade Center “tie” WTC tenants to the manufacturers of said thermite? It doesn’t.

no evidence of its use or existence can be made except in one document which, were it simply only partially discredited

Which document would that be? Why would it be that if this one paper was even “partially discredited” would it “take down the entire theory?”

On the one hand, we have AE911Truth which has offered credible scientific theories based on existing physical evidence. On the other hand, we have Judith Woods and “energy beams” and another one with “mini-nuke” – both offereing ZERO evidence.

It’s clear the most useful theories are those with evidence. I’m sure the author realizes this which is why the paragraph is so unexpected.

Reply
Martin B.
October 10, 2011 – 11:37 am
And we have Dimitri Khalezov’s testemony (not theory) regarding the underground thermo nuclear 150KT devices, which is often left out of 911 discussions for one reason or another.

Reply
Jim Fetzer
October 10, 2011 – 12:33 pm
Martin,

During my interview of Dimitri Khalezov, it became apparent that he was unaware of the existence of the bathtub or the consequences of using 150kt nukes to take down the three buildings, especially when the Twin Towers were destroyed in a completely different fashion than WTC-7. Moreover, on his theory, the Twin Towers remain standing AS AN ILLUSION after they have been destroyed by those mini-nukes, where the first 60 floors were destroyed in place, the next 30 or more seriously damaged, and the top floors fell under the force of gravity. But those buildings were converted into millions of cubic yards of very fine dust and there was no stack of pancakes, even for the top 20 floors or so, which rather strongly suggests that his specific theory of the use of nukes is incorrect.

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 1:27 pm
get with harris on the specifics

nukes for sure below…heat could come from no other place

above….and SDI device driven by fusion…..

it is all too complex for us to discuss…because proving our case would cost us our credibity

nobody would believe what was actually used except that it produced massive ionizing radiation that has killed hundreds

g

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 1:27 pm
7

i go conventional explosives

g
Zitawi
October 11, 2011 – 12:17 am
why conventional for 7 and mini for the towers? if they were capable of placing conventional in 7 why couldn’t they do the same for the towers? I don’t think we will get to the truth on this issue. there are two many questions that require answers.
“In game theory, you confuse your opponent, not with secrecy but too much information.” that is where we are at. we need to focus on the objectives and on the results of 9/11 and those are crystal clear. so lets not worry too much about the methodology. as much as I want to believe that the buildings were taken down by minis it just doesn’t make that much sense to me that nukes were placed there since the inception of the buildings. that is too incredible. now that said. why don’t you find a resource to enlighten us regarding the tunnels that existed underground between the buildings. there was talk about 100s of millions in gold that is uncounted for that was lost during the attack.
Martin B.
October 10, 2011 – 1:36 pm
I would not expect a nicely organized stack of pancakes after a near free fall of over 1000 feet of the upper few less damaged floors. From that height that part of the building has reached about 100mph and simply smashed itself to bits, not to microscopic dust but to larger debris. Concrete floors will crush. Metal beams will break apart at the bolted joints. Fotos show evidence of that.

Reply
bahmi
October 10, 2011 – 4:41 pm
355 cases of multiple myeloma? Rapid onset of same? Thermite toxicity? Far longer incubation time expected, some “special” and energetic form of energy, i.e. nuclear sounds far more attractive.
Jim Fetzer
October 10, 2011 – 12:29 pm
Andrew,

Have you missed “Is ’9/11 Truth’ based upon a false theory?”, “Nanothermite: If it doesn’t fit, you must acquit!”, and “The Science and Politics of 9/11: The Toronto Hearings”, in which T. Mark Hightowr and I have explained (at length and in detail) why appeals to nanothermite in this context are either false or trivial or speculative as follows:

(1) nanothermite alone CANNOT have been responsible for the destruction of the Twin Towers, since it is non-explosive and only has a detonation velocity of 895 m/s, while the pulverization of concrete or the decimation of steel requires those of 3,200 m/s and of 6,100 m/s, respectively. So we KNOW that it cannot have been done using nanothermite alone;

(2) nanothermite COMBINED with explosives can become explosive, about which there is no doubt; but that is also true of toothpaste (my example) and of breakfast cereal (Mark’s illustration), which also become explosive when they are combined with explosives; so, as I have explained repeatedly, while this is TRUE, it is also TRIVIAL; and, finally,

(3) there may be new, high-tech, secret and classified versions of nanothermite, such as by its mixture with sol-gel, that turn it into an explosive; but while you have cited some studies from 2004 and 2005 that seem to imply as much, you have NEITHER shown that they have the necessary detonation velocity NOR that they were available in 2001!

Indeed, option (3), which seems to be a popular position, qualifies as a form of SPECULATION. Those who support it, alas, have offered no PROOF that even mixed with sol-gel it could pulverize concrete or decimate steel. So I trust you can appreciate why Mark and I continue to maintain our position that nanothermite has been oversold to the 9/11 Truth community.

The consequences of the unwarranted promotiom of the myth of “explosive nanothermite” has had the effect of inhibiting research on how it was done (since allegedly we already KNEW) and of attacking alternatives using mini-nukes or directed-energy weapons that are at least as deserving of consideration. Nanothermite has not panned out.

A nice example of the kind of research that we need has been provided by Dwain Deets, who has applied four theories, which include controlled demolition, exotic accelerants (including nanothermite), nuclear devices, and directed energy to WTC-7. This seems to me to be a welcome development, which I encourage every one to review at http://vimeo.com/29575849

Reply
Dave
October 10, 2011 – 3:42 pm
Having just viewed the vimeo link you provided, I agree this is a welcome development and particularly informative to a “searcher” like myself. My only concern is that it is potentially “overwhelming” to a recent “awakee” that is still trying to come to terms with the scale of the 9/11 lie. Still, great info.

Reply Ben lee
October 10, 2011 – 2:53 pm
Andrew, now you see the shell game in action, right below your comment. Duff and Fetzer are the razzle dazzle lie industry -subject of this article. Clear now? Dmitri Khazelov-give it a rest Duff-NO ONE believes this drivel. A&E, as you mention, leads the way.

Reply roni
October 10, 2011 – 3:40 pm
Even THEY showed us how the gona do it & who the gona blame through the HOLLYWOOD movie
Long kiss good night 1996

Reply Andrew Washer
October 10, 2011 – 10:30 am
“Nanothermite” is suggested by the Architects & Engineers for 911 Truth, who are easily the most credible and most valuable 911 Truth group out there. The nanothermite theory also has the benefit of being based on something known and real, thermite, as opposed to distractions such as “Directed Energy Beams” from Jewish, pro-Israel professor Judith Woods – who also censors discussion of Israeli involvement.

I can see no legitimate reason to oppose AE911Truth or to discount the non-thermite theory, considering there’s physical evidence for it. It may turn out to be something else, but it’s the best, perhaps only, theory out there.

It supports the theory that “nanothermite” was used, tying corporations headquartered in the World Trade Center to producers of “nanothermite” when there is no reason for this relationship whatsoever. Nanothermite is a highly “deniable” material, no evidence of its use or existence can be made except in one document which, were it simply only partially discredited, would take down the entire theory like a “house of cards.”

I’m having trouble understanding just what the author means by this, and why it’s included in this article?

tying corporations headquartered in the World Trade Center to producers of “nanothermite”

How does the theory that a specialized type of thermite was used in the demolition of the World Trade Center “tie” WTC tenants to the manufacturers of said thermite? It doesn’t.

no evidence of its use or existence can be made except in one document which, were it simply only partially discredited

Which document would that be? Why would it be that if this one paper was even “partially discredited” would it “take down the entire theory?”

On the one hand, we have AE911Truth which has offered credible scientific theories based on existing physical evidence. On the other hand, we have Judith Woods and “energy beams” and another one with “mini-nuke” – both offering ZERO evidence.

It’s clear the most useful theories are those with evidence. I’m sure the author realizes this which is why the paragraph is so unexpected.

Reply Dave
October 10, 2011 – 10:48 am
Gordon, I understand the “shortcomings” of the 9/11 video included at the begining of this article. Organizations such as AE911truth have produced what I consider “powerful” evidence for the use of a “thermite” product as part of the controlled demolition of all 3 WTC towers. Even if I accept that “mini nukes” were in the sub-basements of all three towers, can that alone ensure the symetrical collapse at free fall speed with pulverization of vast amounts of materials from the top down? (WTC 1&2) It seems there had to be other “demolition factors” at play as well.

As for “avoiding” an Israeli connection to all of this, AE911truth may be guilty of that as well. I will have to doublecheck but it seems they did have the “dancing israelis on the rooftop video”. Might be confusing sites.

I know “they” are pushing hard for a new, independent investigation of the events of 9/11. At this stage of the process, with so much of the American public still asleep or completely apathetic, isn’t a new investigation that doesn’t deal with the actual perpetrators but simply the fact that The Official Story is false…..at least a good start? Then we can get to all the guilty we can find, and allow the outrage of the American people to eliminate or “little Israeli buddy”.

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 10:51 am
thermitic material discussions have been a distraction.

no thermite was needed to take down building 7 and there is NO evidence that thermite of any kind supports the energy that sustained fires for 2 months

it is my opinion that all discussion of nanothermite is deception by those involved.

my opinion

then again, history has proven me correct…that discussions of nanothermite have gone nowhere and lead to nothing but easily deniable “science” and dissention.

there is no way to discuss intelligence operations with “consumers”

not an insult..just a fact. don’t have your plumber do brain surgery either

g

Reply
Dave
October 10, 2011 – 11:26 am
I’m not getting to the “nanothermite deception” connection. Unless its use somehow shifts the blame where it doesn’t belong. Anyway, I think you already covered that with “there is no way to discuss intelligence operations with “consumers””. I’m sure you are privy to much more info on this than I ever will be, so good enough for now.

Reply Andrew Washer
October 10, 2011 – 11:36 am
“there is no way to discuss intelligence operations with “consumers””

Oh no I think there is G. Are you suggesting the reason the video is “product”/disinfo because it mentions nano-thermite, it mentions all the various US govt/corporates that had the motive, means, and opportunity to commit the crimes, but fails to mention the Israel angle?

Is it the timing? The only thing in that video I didn’t know about by 2002 are the patents on the nano-thermite.

I like to believe I’m getting quite good at sifting the real truth from the “product” so to speak. Being a long time unwilling “consumer” I have a pretty good idea of how it tastes. That video didn’t taste like product to me.

Reply Woop
October 10, 2011 – 11:46 am
Gord, fires, what fires?

There’s no evidence of fires, none. Zip. Null and void set.

Anyone on this board believe otherwise, show me a mere *scintilla* of evidence….you won’t because you can’t.

The *stuff* rising above the debris was not *smoke* pursuant to a fire, or underground fires….this is disinformation and total bullshit. This *stuff* persisted for years, by the way, not weeks. This “*stuff* inhibited and delayed the rebuilding effort, also.

Look to a more robust explanation with this fact: most of the building(s) turned to dust in a few seconds, and “nanothermite” has been completely debunked by Jim Hightower as its’ mechanism.
No nanothermite devotee has yet to respond to Hightower, as far as I am aware.

Jones and his group are the real disinfo bullshit artists, time to wake up.

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 12:03 pm
the fires burned until dec 15

you’be been had again

Reply
Woop
October 10, 2011 – 1:29 pm
Gordon, with all due respect, there were no fires, and I challenge you or any readers of VT to set forth proof to the contrary.

The “fires” was the cover story, as it would appear consistent with something so incredibly hot as to have melted steel core columns, and all the rest…which was planned in advance of the demolitions.

Nanothermite adherents have been sold down the river, and most have them haven’t realized to date.

Show us the underground fires…..you can’t, you won’t, no one can, because a LIE CAN NOT BE PROVEN….that’s the point.
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 2:22 pm

proof to the contrary, all you can stand. isn’t this embarassing?
Ben lee
October 10, 2011 – 3:01 pm
Ya, I knew Fetzer was Hightowers little woman… Now it comes out-they’re married.

Reply Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 12:04 pm
Nanothermite is not a “deception”.

The reason “nanothermite discussions” have gone nowhere is essentially the same reason that discussion of imposter Hymie Brown’s appearance on National TV on 9/11 has gone nowhere, for example: Jewish propagandists and all of our corrupt Jewish-controlled institutions are out to stifle it.

In any case, there are two relevant questions about nanothermite in this context:
(1) Why use thermite in the first place?
(2) Why use “nanothermite” instead of “regular” thermite?

And the probable answers are:
(1) (a) Thermite can cut steel. According to the patent literature, thermite can cut steel in some cases better that conventional high explosives, especially in those cases where the steel to be cut cannot be properly “prepped” beforehand. (b) The perps may not have had sufficient covert access to the perimeter columns to prep them for conventional demolition charges. Moreover, thermite would not have a loud report, as conventional explosives would, and this may have been a major reason to use thermite for the perimeter columns, where covertness would be a priority.

(2) Why they chose nanothermite over regular thermite is somewhat speculative but let’s think about it as an engineer would. Undoubtedly the perps would have conducted tests on steel box columns like the ones used in the construction of the towers. No doubt various formulations of thermite were tried, and a decision was made, most likely on the basis of reliability and effectiveness. If it would take 10 lbs of conventional thermite to reliably cut a box column, and only 5 lbs of nanothermite, and/or if the nanothermite would burn so fast as to not require a special, potentially forensically embarrassing casing to hold it, and/or it was much easier to ignite and/or more predictable, then I can see why they would use it vs regular thermite.

Don’t forget, we’re dealing with trained, state sponsored actors here with essentially unlimited resources backing them up.

Reply
Jim Fetzer
October 10, 2011 – 12:35 pm
Nelson_2008, using your kind of reasoning, why would they have used nanothermite, which has an explosive forces (such as it is) that is less than 13% that of TNT? Why do you keep promoting a theory that is either false or trivial or speculative, as I have explained once againto Andrew above.

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 1:09 pm
Nanothermite is another way of saying Mossad
Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 1:43 pm
Firstly, I just explained why they would use thermite, and I just explained why they may have used the nanothermite variety of thermite.

Second, it’s really getting tiresome to have to keep beating down the “explosive force” strawman yet again. You’re throwing around a meaningless number as part of a moot point, as part of a nonsensical “argument”.

The “explosive force” or “brisance” or “TNT equivalence” or whatever you want to call it – of any pyrotechnic mixture, in any particular situation, is going to depend on such things as the geometry, the confinement, the particle size, the density and the initiation. You just can’t pick a number out of the air and proclaim that it’s geberally meaningful and then try to say that it doesn’t comport with your highly subjective view of what happened to the buildings.

In any case I’ve already posted links to youtube videos showing mere ounces of pyrotechnic flash powder destroying 160 lbs of concrete. I’ve already posted excerpts from Army studies showing a surprising blast effectiveness (compared to TNT) of pyrotechnic compositions, including even black powder.

There is also a patent for a device intended to shatter rock (which requires some brisance), that uses only confined, high power electrical pulse initiated thermite.

Lastly, and for the nth time, no one is saying that high explosives weren’t used along with the thermite, in the demolitions of the buildings.

So what is your point?
Jim Fetzer
October 10, 2011 – 2:32 pm
My points are hardly “subjective”, which means you really don’t know what you are talking about. Neither Mark nor I deny that nanothermite may have been used. What we need to know is what was used with nanothermite to destroy the towers, since nanothermite cannot have done the job by itself. What was used with it to convert the towers into those millions of cubic yards of very fine dust? I encourage you to come across as separate from “the lie industry”, not as part of it.
Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 2:38 pm
Ok so in other words, you have no meaningful point, as usual.
Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 4:15 pm
BTW, go look up U.S. Patent #5773750 “Rock Fragmentation System Using Gold Schmidt Method”.

Abstract:
A rock fragmentation system using Gold Schmidt method and process for blasting using the machine are provided, wherein the blasting machine has a capacitor bank, a switch, a high voltage electric power supply, a first charge dump and a second charge dump, and an electrode assembly which is connected to capacitor bank and switch with a coxial cable and electrodes at a lower end of the electrode assembly, wherein an ALUMINUM AND METAL OXIDE composition of a predetermined mixture ratio is inserted between electrodes in a lower end of the electrode assembly for generating an instant reaction energy by discharging the electric energy.

Note that according to the patent, the thermite mixture, when initiated with a fast high energy electrical pulse, is capable of blasting rock. It takes some brisance or “shattering power” to fragment rock, no?

Why would a Korean company go through the trouble and expense of getting a patent for a process that can’t possibly work (according to you)?
Jim Fetzer
October 10, 2011 – 4:21 pm
What year was the patent issued? and what is the detonation velocity of the patented process?
Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 4:45 pm
The patent was issued in 1998. The inventors don’t specify any kind of VOD, but it’s supposed to be used in lieu of high explosives to blast rock, so it must be somewhere in the same ball park with the HE that it’s replacing. Also the inventors mention adding some water to increase the “blasting force”, apparently to generate gas.
Andrew Washer
October 10, 2011 – 11:12 am
It’s not AE911Truth’s job to talk about who did it. As architects, engineers, and scientists, it’s their job to talk about the demolitions and how they happened.

Below, the author states “discussions of nanothermite have gone nowhere and lead to nothing but easily deniable “science” and dissention.”

But this is false, the nanothermite theory is clearly the most likely when it comes to the demolitions of the towers. Nanothermite can plausibly explain the fires for months.

The video was excellent, it’s factual, based on evidence, and it does nothing to protect or cover for Israel. The video also talks about World Trade Center 7, shows the video of it’s demolition, etc.

So the hit piece on this video is ironic, to say the least.

Reply
Ben lee
October 10, 2011 – 3:07 pm
Until you realiZe who Gordon is-NOT ironic…Gordon is paid by the Sunstein Zelikow gang. This site is about perception management. They are working hard to connect aberrant (abhorent to most-true or not) concepts such as Hitler the Hero so as to simulataneously connect the 9/11 truth movement to concepts a majority of Americans consider evil (ie Nazis or Islamic extremeism). They are writing volumes of truth and lies in order to bury a few key facts that are threatening to undermine the governments official conspiracy theory (OCT) of 9/11. Nanothermite is one such issue. Kevin Barrett, Jim Fetzer, Gordon Duff, and a long list of other disinfo operatives are hosting your experience here at VT. Go to ae911truth dot org for straight facts without psyop spin.

Reply
barras
October 10, 2011 – 7:31 pm
And who are you and how do you know this?
And why are we supposed to think that you are NOT a disinfo agent?

Reply Audry
October 10, 2011 – 11:13 pm
Worth considering, Thanks.

Reply Brian
October 10, 2011 – 11:19 am
Dave,

Perhaps the organization has changed, but A major player from AE911truth told me years ago they don’t want to blame anyone for 911 just let people know the evidence doesn’t support the official story. Sigh.

Reply
Dave
October 10, 2011 – 11:32 am
I think that is accurate. Unless “those” truely in the “know” speak up, “the antisemetism card” would further hamper this process. I don’t doubt that this is Mossad through and through, but the zionist loving fundementalist in this country would “shoot that rabbit” before it ever got out of “its” hole. How else can you at least get people to wakeup and LOOK?

Reply Nelson_2008
October 10, 2011 – 5:31 pm
I understand the approach that A&EFor911Truth are taking, but let’s face it, they don’t seem to be getting anywhere.

Moreover, as I saw during the “Toronto Hearings”, their studious avoidance of the fundamental underlying issues seems to leave tham totally unprepaed to deal with the inevitable question: “But who would do such a thing and why?”, as it was put to them on at least one occassion during the hearings.

They just sit there looking like a deer caught in the headlights, sort of stuttering and stammering and hand waving and gesturing and pretending they don’t have a clue.

If I was addressing a group of people, like David Chandler was (I think it was him) and someone hit me with the “who and why” question, I would, at the very least, respond with another question. I would ask the questioner: Do you believe that the Israeli attack on the USS Liberty was an “accident”? I would say: “if Israel was willing to risk a nuclear war between the U.S. and the USSR in order to get the U.S. involved in a war against Arabs, in 1967, why should we think they wouldn’t try it again?

What’s the point of “9/11 truth” if the actual truth of the matter is off limits? As I see it, if we can’t tell the whole truth, we might as well not even talk about it. The truth is “ugly”; the truth is “racist”; the truth is an expression of “hate” (or at least that’s what they’ll be screaming), but if we can’t tell the truth now, then when can we? When the missiles are raining down on us?

Reply
Audry
October 10, 2011 – 11:19 pm
Excellent. Unless we deal with the who and why, the technical stuff leads nowhere.

Reply bahmi
October 10, 2011 – 4:46 pm
It would seem that incredible energy forms were necessary to en-dust the buildings. Supposedly, when a 120 story building collapses, the pile of rubble should be far, far more tall. I heard that fully 1/3 of the buildings ended up as mere dust….dust collected from Nagasaki was very similar to this dust, a micro-particle size, not some coarse mixture of bigger and smaller chunks.
Then again, let’s be aware that we’ve all been fooled before and there is lots of propaganda flying constantly around this event over the last decade.

Reply Brian
October 10, 2011 – 10:57 am
From the article: when critical issues such as 9/11 arise, seem to be providing “cover and deception” for Israeli operations, even through what seem to be “half hearted” attacks on Israeli spying or the powerful Israeli lobby.

The “lobby” is untouchable. 9/11, were the truth to get out, would send America to war, especially if Americans learned that a nation they believed to be an ally was involved and that America had fought for 10 years against the wrong people.

Timeliness? Americans are, in fact, very ready to accept that they have done exactly that, fought the wrong people and are increasingly suspicious of Israel, a suspicion once it is tied to 9/11, will cause an explosion heard around the world.

Brian: Yes, indeed.

Reply
bahmi
October 10, 2011 – 4:47 pm
America and the CIA were in that mess, you just know it.

Reply Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 11:05 am
Brian,
One person understands. Let’s hope we find another active intellect out there.

Reply Woop
October 10, 2011 – 11:52 am
“Wanta: We got those first, some airfields, other targets agreed upon with Gaddafi. Our people kept his family safe.”

The Libyan leader’s 15-month old adopted daughter was not so fortunate, she was blown to shreds….

Reply
Gordon Duff
October 10, 2011 – 12:00 pm
she never existed, part of the cover
you’ve been had

but…this all went public long ago

Reply Johnny Punish
October 10, 2011 – 12:02 pm
This whole 10 year clusterfu$k would be a comedy show if it was not real. It’s a friggin’ bad joke! The criminals got away with the loot….Sorry, too hip, gotta go and blame a few Mexican dishwashers for the lost economy and lost future.

Reply adeUK
October 10, 2011 – 12:18 pm
Whats right with this video ?

http://maxkeiser.com/2011/10/10/fox-news-liars-forced-out-of-occupywallstreet/

Reply Woop
October 10, 2011 – 1:32 pm
Gord, perhaps you can inform the readers of VT why a cover story lending sympathy to Qaddafi and against the bombing raid would have been devised by the west?

What spy vs. spy vs. spy yarn can you offer now?

Reply Donna Matrix
October 10, 2011 – 2:22 pm
Gordon, et al:

Look at this: http://www.amazon.com/Towers-Evidence-Directed-Free-energy-Technology/dp/0615412564/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318281662&sr=8-1

Reply Joe in San Francisco
October 10, 2011 – 3:06 pm
I watched the video before reading Gordon’s article, and I immediately spotted the 3 aspects of it that Gordon highlighted. However, I thought it seemed like an excellent denouncement of the official story. Were the average American who has doubts about the official story to watch it, I think he or she would get the impression that there were massive lies associated with 9/11 and its aftermath. If it at least got people demanding a new 9/11 commission, it would seem to serve a positive purpose. Once you got an all-encompassing investigation going — with real investigators brandishing subpoena power — the other facts, whatever they are, would have to come out. Those of us willing to dig really deep can argue about the mind-numbing details, but the average American really needs to consider one item for the Truth movement to be effective: the Official Story is 100% false and must be disgarded, and the only way that can happen is with a new investigation.

Reply John
October 10, 2011 – 4:04 pm
Who gives a hoot in hell what kind of explosives were used
in New York and Washington, D.C. on 11 Sep 01?
Those who did it surely have access to the latest and
greatest methods of destruction, most of which remain
unknown by all but those with the highest levels of intelligence clearance.
The question needing to be answered is who the perpetrators are.
Are any of the 103 names purported to be known on the well-guarded list
held by VT the same as those mentioned in the video?

Once those responsible are held to account, the “How” and “Why”
will be obvious. Then the house cleaning can begin.

Reply Mary
October 10, 2011 – 4:38 pm
Why no comments on the Leo Wanta dossier? Is it another game theory?

Reply
Jim W. Dean
October 10, 2011 – 8:06 pm
Good point Mary, but it is a complicated story, and a long one that requires rolling up your sleeves.

I have run into high up Intel people who think he was a state income tax cheat. There is no way to turn them around with just an email. So all you can to is tease them that when the real story comes out they are going to feel bad for having let him twist in the wind all of these years.

But you know us. We are going to get into the stories that others take a pass on. We’ll do the best we can.

Reply Steve
October 10, 2011 – 5:39 pm
Just a comment/query about the claim of pulverization. Whilst there was a hell of a lot of dust, billowing clouds of it, isn’t it accounted for by the concrete, and whatever active elements were present (so to speak)? But the steel itself did not actually pulverize, it collapsed and twisted and broke into smaller pieces, but piles of it were still there and were shipped off to Asia or wherever. I just ask because it seems some claim the whole thing vaporized including the steel, which doesn’t seem actually true, even if the collapses were spectacular and bizarre.

Reply Youtube “War by Deception 2011”
October 10, 2011 – 6:01 pm
The space based DEW hypothesis is obviously BS. The towers were destroyed from the inside out for chrissake! The nano-thermite evidence is solid, but they clearly used explosives as well. I know who made that video and he’s absolutely not intentionally deceiving anyone. He’s a genuine truthseeker and has in fact uploaded several videos on WTC7. You, Gordon, are full of it and by discrediting AE911Truth and parroting Judy Wood nonsense, you’re doing the truth-movement a disservice. Only kooks will believe you.

Reply Dave
October 10, 2011 – 7:16 pm
The last point I hope to drive home on this topic is this: THE DEVIL IS IN THE DETAILS AT THE FINISH LINE. WE need enough “runners in the race” to even warrant a starting gun. The what, when, who, how cannot become a “roadblock” to starting this race when it matters most. Enough people need to understand the basics: 9/11 as represented by YOUR government is a LIE! Are you willing to risk “losing” recruits to that knowledge over “infighting” over details that will emerge as a natural progession of an organized pursuit of the truth?

When the day comes that this “issue” cannot be ignored by the LAME-STREAM-MEDIA or politicians seeking re-election, WE will have them in the corner they NEED to be in. We are ALL rolling the dice in a “game” with high stakes. IF we manage to put THEM in that corner, who is to say they will not repeat this atrocity on a MUCH MORE DEVASTATING LEVEL! The stakes are HIGH, stay focused on the PRIMARY issue…..EDUCATE THE UNEDUCATED and SWELL the ranks of “the awake” and active participants in ultimate justice! Don’t let this become another JFK, gulf of Tonkin, Murrah building “swept under the rug” clusterf**k. Peace out.

For the time being, KISS!

Reply barras
October 10, 2011 – 7:20 pm
Speaking of the ‘lie industry’, here is a bit of related news that was quashed years ago, but is as urgent for the public to understand today as it was then. An important key to understanding ‘official’ statements, transcripts and AP stories is to know that in BabylonSpeak the word ‘international’ as in ‘international community’, ‘international law’, ‘international staff’, ‘international standards’, is actually a code word for ‘The Bank’.
In this article, the writer Jared Israel, who I am not familiar with, has analyzed the subject of Sharia law, who created it and who is promoting it. Lo and behold, once again, we find that the force behind Sharia Law is, The Bank. We also find that Sharia Law is amazingly similar to Talmudic Law and Fundamentalist Judeo-Christianity. Just as most Christians have no idea what ‘Fundamentalist Judeo-Christianity’ is or where it came from, and most importantly don’t want it imposed on them by anyone, in equal measure the Muslims also don’t want Sharia Law imposed on them, nor is it part of their modern idea of spirituality. I’m sure that many Jews likewise do not subscribe to the Talmud and are horrified at much of what it promotes.
All three of these pseudo-religious monstrosities promote the opposite of what spirituality is all about. All three promote disrespect for and discrimination against women, war-mongering, racism and totalitarian mind control by religious leaders, though the word ‘religious’ could well be replaced by the word ‘cult’ in this case, or even the word ‘Bank’ which would be more precise. We all understand who the enemy is by now.
The article states, “Sharia consists of elaborate rules governing every aspect of life, public and private. It is based on the rulings of Islamic scholars. They study religious texts including the Koran…the Hadith and Sunna,…From these texts, Islamic scholars derive rules covering every aspect of life, including right and wrong opinions on contemporary issues. Thus human existence is governed by the decisions of a small number of men who have studied the writings, sayings and deeds of one man who lived 14 centuries ago.”
The meeting to discuss Sharia Law was attended by representatives of many countries and corporations that publicly present themselves as enemies. Somehow these enemies all managed to agree on the one thing that no one else in the world wanted or needed, Sharia Law. “…the conference ruled that Islamic law, or Sharia, has all the elements needed for *any* “modern state agenda”!”
The author provides a good explanation, stating that, “In the modern world adherence to Sharia law reduces the intellectual, political and scientific power of a people and renders them weak so they can be ruthlessly exploited economically, politically and militarily, so they can be used by Great Powers as a destructive force against secular states.”

[Excerpt from the AP dispatch starts here]
“The conclusions of that meeting were that Islamic law has “all the elements that are really required to underpin a human rights agenda and a modern state agenda which are completely compatible with international standards,” said William Loris, director-general of the International Development Law Organization, which trains lawyers and judges in developing countries.”
[Excerpt from the AP dispatch ends here]
Replacing the phrase ‘international standards’ with ‘The Bank’s standards’, this AP announcement begins to make sense.
The article goes on to state: “Starting in 1983 and continuing to the present day, USAID has distributed tens of millions of Muslim fundamentalist schoolbooks in Afghanistan. During most of this period, the books had pictures depicting jihad fighters slaughtering infidels….”
“Many people in the West supported the attack on Afghanistan because they were convinced – due to misinformation – that this war would end fundamentalist rule in that tortured country. Do you remember Barbara Bush’s speech, exhorting the West to save Afghan women from the extremists?”
I remember the picture of the Muslim girl with her nose cut off. This is what our tax dollars are promoting, even as our children die fighting it. It’s pure insanity.
If Americans realized that their government and the corporations that they purchase so many items from, were working to spread Sharia throughout the ‘developing countries’, there would be even more outrage than there already is. So many things to be outraged about, so little time.
The IDLO’s main sponsors include:
*The Arab Bank for Economic Development in Africa (BADEA);
* The Arab Fund for Economic and Social Development
* The Kuwait Fund for Arab and Economic Development.
* The World Bank;
* The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development
* USAID (controlled by the foreign policy establishment, coordinates with the CIA and the semi-covert National Endowment for Democracy. USAID is the funding agency that has been distributing tens of millions of Islamic fundamentalist schoolbooks in Afghanistan)
* Coca Cola;
* The governments of Finland, France, Italy, Japan, Denmark, France, Netherlands and the USA;
* Microsoft;
At the time the article was written, the IDLO’s vice-chairmen were:
*Mohammed Y. Abdel-Aal
Senior Legal Advisor
Kuwait Fund for Arab Economic Development (term expires 2004)
* Attilio Massimo Iannucci
Deputy Director General
General Directorate for Development Cooperation
Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Italy
(Permanent Representative) [8]
Because these people are not supposed to be cooperating publicly, IDLO/Sharia AP story was not picked up.
The entire article, with interesting details can be found at www (dot) emperors-clothes.com/news/idlo.htm

Reply barras
October 10, 2011 – 7:27 pm
I hope the above is not too off-topic, but going on and on about nanothermite is mind-numbing. What we really need is a good strategy to indict the perps.

Reply
DaveE
October 11, 2011 – 3:02 am
This is the best comment on this page.

Reply Ibram
October 10, 2011 – 9:38 pm
Gordon,
What about Mossad whistleblower Victor Ostrovsky’s claim that they planted transmitters in Libya in 1986 to make it look like the Libyans were coordinating terrorist strikes against US targets? This brought down F111 attacks on Libya, and the shootdown of Libyan MiGs etc.

If the Israelis were cooperating with Libya, then not everyone, even in Israel and the Mossad, were in the know. Clearly some/ most believed that they were at war with the Libyans (when as you stated, Gaddhafi was playing both side of the Cold War?), and Gaddhafi made a lot of noise about his anti-Israeli credentials and support for various Palestinian liberation movements(can’t remember, but several groups were headquartered in Libya). Compartmentalization at work?

A lot of people, especially in the Muslim world, do not want to believe that Gaddhafi was secretly in cahoots with Israel, and that he’s a champion of both the Arab world and Africa against NATO/American/Israeli aggression and neo-colonialism.

Reply Audry
October 10, 2011 – 10:39 pm
Someone has probably mentioned it buy:

“Thus, when we found Gaddafi’s people meeting with Bush former envoy David Welch at the Four Seasons in Cairo, August 11,2012, it was a continuation of history that began in 1969 with CIA Director Richard Helms, ”

August 2012 has not arrived yet, as far as I know.

Reply Audry
October 10, 2011 – 11:04 pm
Gordon,

My best teacher throughout all my years in school said, “Don’t ever let anyone tell you, you are not qualified to understand, comprehend a complex topic or subject, it is often used under the guise of understanding the subject matter, while at the same time inundating you with bullshit, only to get to the conclusion that was already determined.” I loved that guy and will always remember and respect his comment. PLUS I have found it true more times than I can mention. So much for, beyond consumers, ability to understand, intuit. That comment was otta line.

Reply James
October 11, 2011 – 1:51 am
Use your common sense. The towers disintigrated before our eyes. There is no average demolition that ever achieved this. You must begin to use a litmus test of truth to cut through disinformation. People should not still be debating whether a plane hit the pentagon. Solve one issue and move on. If people fail the litmus test or shrug off any path of inquiry, hold them as suspect. That mean no sacred cows, especially prolific professors. Especially beware of the official seal of authority or its signature. The minute a group becomes legit you should not trust it.

Three litmus tests:

1. If their solution is a new investigation they are false. This is a delaying tactic.
2. Do they believe the original airplanes hit the towers? They are not truth.
3. Do they support an immediate citizen revolution and purging of our parasitic secret government? They are probably real.

The call it ground zero for a reason folks. And you want to wake up people? I think the actual truth is the best injection of stimulants as you can concieve.

Here is a nugget of wisdom. The secret inside the secret inside the secret is this: the towers were built to be destroyed.

Reply James
October 11, 2011 – 2:34 am
Ps: without looking, I believe that video to be Alien Scientit based on the work of Kevin Ryan. I agree with another poster here that it is not fair to assume this is disinfo because it is full of info.

That is like I saying i shoukd wuestion Gordon be ause he is a defense contractor. Who ya gonna believe kid? The defense contractor who happens to be tight with Wanta or a kid making documentaries on a mac?

Now, to be fair, I think Girdon is a real hero, not a traitor. But I bring up the point that his argument does not follow in every case, but as I show above, I agree with him regarding the big points.

But…

What is the story with Veterans Today on Libya? It doesn’t feel right, yeah. This is the supposed friend of Israel that was literally outting them for killing JFK at the UN? Well if they are deep sleepers, that is… They are… Deep. But the article sure explains why W. Tarpley cant say ne’er a bad word about Israel.

Reply James
October 11, 2011 – 2:43 am
Typos are ipad, not my brain. Gordon, whats up with Libya coverage? Were you just ahead of the curve? Was it all a hoax what we saw, including a controlled oppisition press? Wow.

Ps: i want to know where you stand on wellaware1.com, Gordon? I think you should syndicate or arrange an article by that author…

Also, is it me or do I see the best part of your site — and reason for drawing epic crowds — because of the intel pieces like this article. I see your site evolving into THE forum for analytic patriot think pieces: a little Tarpley, Wayne Madsen maybe, etc… But vetted by you. It is time to move the national conversation forward and no one else is going to be able to hold the scabard… Youre a dying breed.

One response to “The Lie Industry

  1. http://www.veteranstoday.com/2011/10/10/the-lie-industry/

    FAR RIGHT WING NATIONALIST LIKUD- STILL WAITING FOR THESE POLITICIANS, JUDGES AND MEDIA TO STOP THE PHONE HACKING BS..AND TELL THE WHOLE £££££££££££ TRUTH, RE BRITISH POLITICIANS AND

    First it was found Julian Assange was “sensitive” to the needs of Israel. Then he announced that investigations of 9/11 were a “distraction.” Then his “love affair” with Israeli Likudist Rupert Murdoch of Fox News/Newscorp spying fame came to light.

    Then it was found he allowed the mainstream papers to censor leaks, aided by Israeli intelligence. Then a money trail came to light, book deals, payoffs, rich friends, all pointing at Tel Aviv. Then it was learned that many of his leaks were no leaks at all but material invented to be leaked, written by the Mossad, a fact exposed by Zbigniew Brzezinski, of the Council on Foreign Relations.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s