OTHERS RECOGNISE CAMERON AS A RED TORY- I SMELL ANOTHER FABIAN!!
Tories and Cameron would dearly love to kick this into the long grass while muttering things like the economy is more important – but judging by the furore and people’s reaction it really is just as important if not more so – if they don’t get that then maybe they are not fit for power/.
Glad to see you grabbed the nettle once more Daniel – you seemed very “off” on Newsnight the other night.
As for William Hague on Newnight last night – my impressions of him are:
Squirm squirn squirm – buttock clenching – squirm squirm squirm squirm – more buttock clenching – squirm squirm squirm goodnight.
yaosxx on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Report commentI agree with some of what Baeda writes above, but being a ‘right’ minded wee soul I would go further.
The United States of America took a forceful step by declaring its independence and publishing a constitution that is held in high regard by all. Baeda suggests introducing a House of Commons motion to the effect that, “This House acknowledges that the supreme authority in this realm, under Almighty God, is the Crown in Parliament, the corollary to which motion would be the proposition that the European “authorities” can go to blazes.”
In my view what we need to do is to create a British constitution and if after putting it to a popular vote of the British people we want out, then we declare our independence in the same manner as the American people.
Mr Cameron promised, played with words and what is now perfectly clear is that the Tories, like Labour and the Liberal Democrats do not wish to see the people choose if they wish to be part of a Federal European State or not. These parties are all committed to an on-going involvement for Britain in Europe.
Mr Cameron foolishly asks not to make our EU membership a big deal, when it is quite clear it already is. The Tories are going to lose the next election and I can’t see Labour or LibDems doing much better.
I am now no longer a Tory supporter and joined UKIP yesterday, I will work hard to convince others to follow as I believe that UKIP will provide the people with the right to vote on European involvement.
Does anyone doubt the groundswell of opposition to British involvement in Europe … not even the politicians who just keep appeasing the French and Germans do, or they would have provided the ballot box to allow us to vote ‘properly’ or as many times as required until we ‘got it right’ … no, the British are polite and orderly – but the French and Germans are all too aware that the British will stand up to the playground bullies.
Does it not make one wonder why the wall was torn down and exactly where the Iron Curtain now resides.
incensed on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:34 am
Report comment50% of babies born to African or Asian parents. I wonder if they’re going to think we should be in or out of Europe, or even give a toss.
Ho hum.
James (1) on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:35 am
Report commentI fully agree that there should be a referendum but in the near future we are faced with a choice of a rabidly EUphilic party and an equivocal EUphilosceptic one to form the next government.
Get the lesser of the two evils into power and let them formulate a coherent pattern for relationship with the EU. Then put it to the test in a referendum.
Textnician on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:36 am
Report commentI have blogged on what Mr. Hannan should do now.
http://my.telegraph.co.uk/garrincha
Garrincha on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:38 am
Report commentTo mattevans81:
You miss an important point in the frustration of the people.
It is no longer about how much involvement we have on a political level with Europe.
It is about whether we wish to continue with the European ‘project’ which is now no longer a trade body which is what the British people were allowed to vote on.
Until the three main parties grasp this and face up to the very awkward reality of the situation they will all lose out at the ballot box.
This might keep labour in, or it might only promote an Italian style parliament … but sooner or later the British people will get to vote on this ‘project’ and to be perfectly frank, the longer it takes to happen, the more incensed will be the Will of the People and the more likely it is that we will vote to announce a British Constitution and Declare from our own Parliament that we are an Independent Nation.
incensed on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:43 am
Report commentYes Dave would be better a better Prime Minister than the snot-gobbler, but only by a hair.
Dave is so repulsively lacking in conviction that no one with an ounce of self-respect could ever vote for him. UKIP aren’t perfect either, but withdrawal from Europe and a Flat Tax are good enough for me.
UKIP or no vote are the only options.
Capitalist on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:46 am
Report commentI’m getting angry I’m the only low ranker who has identified himself with his membership number!!!!
Hannan has asked for people to prove they are willing to stand with him against the darkness, to put themselves personaly at risk.
Put up or shut up
Some rebellion this is turning into.
DominicJ on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:48 am
Report commentLord Pearson says that “the Muslims are breeding ten times faster than us” and that as a result, Britain is set to be overrun within the next “10 or 20 years,”
Where is your future voter base going to come from Garrincha? We’re not going to have a country left worth getting out of the EU soon.
James (1) on Nov 5th, 2009 at 9:51 am
Report commentCameron is a turncoat. I never trusted him one little bit. His promises of referendums on further EU power are pathetic.
What are you doing in the Tory party Mr Hannan?
If you serious in what you say, you don’t belong in the Conservative Party under David Cameron
UK Debt Slave on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Report commentJames (1)
European Union or African Union?
Ask Jack Straw.
(Sadly, James, most people seem to have missed the point that demographics is destiny. Jack understands it though and with his friends has plotted our destruction. Those Tories who think that they can just keep jogging along with the EU and their mass immigration agenda don’t realise that the next few elections will be the last in which they have the deciding vote, and with the EU ConTreaty this process will gain even more speed.)
pondy on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:00 am
Report comment[...] is the Tory curse, it seems. Even if it’s not causing them to fight amongst themselves (like Dan Hannan standing down from the front bench to pursue the Lib Dem policy of an In or Out refe…), it’s still forcing them to talk about [...]
How to lose the Election? at The Charlotte Gore Blog on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:02 am
Report commentmattevans81
“what I want more is the Socialist cretins out of office
But Cameron is one of the “Socialist cretins”. Absolutley nothing he has ever done (we can safely ignore what he says) has been anything less than whole hearted support for Blair/Brown’s centralising, big state socialism. A vote for Cameron replaces an ugly Socialist cretin with a slightly prettier Socialist cretin. The most you can hope for from Cameron is that he will shaft the country slightly more slowly (but no less brutally) than Brown.
MarkE on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:03 am
Report commentMarkE
Cameron likes Blair.
I rest my case.
pondy on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:10 am
Report comment“But Cameron is one of the “Socialist cretins”. “
Exactly MarkE – and should no more get our vote now that he has gone over to the dark side, than those other, viler traitors, Shaun Woodward and Quentin Davies. All are beyond salvation.
45govt on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Report commentJames Dellingpole
I respect Dan, I don’t respect that he has caved in to the over-emotional & illogical rantings of those who are risking keeping Labour in office.
.
Phil Kean on Nov 5th, 2009 at 10:14 am
Report commentDan you where my idol in the Conservative party. but Cameron was right today, his policy was good, and he said there was more to come. He should have a review on all European powers and the give the results of that review to the British people in a referendum.
Lets be honest about this. Democracy has failed, direct action is the only avenue left open. The sooner the body bags start piling up outside EU institutions the better.
Do they really think we wont fight by what ever means at our disposal for our freedom and for however long it takes.
Prepare to reap the whirlwind.
davidseven on Nov 5th, 2009 at 3:56 am
Report commentDemocracy has failed
Thi has nothing to do with democracy. The EU project is a direct power grab, instantiated by the european elites, and for the european elites.
it has nothing what-so-ever t do with the people. It is entirely to do with accumulating maximum power at maximum speed for the upper class.
You know, those people who threw such amazing parties in the 16th, 17th, 18th, and 19th centuries.
You didn’t think they all just dissappeared did you?
“I have returned to the back benches in order to concentrate on building such a movement.” I suppose this is what’s referred to. Damp squib, sorry. Noone cares or even knows that you were on the front benches of what anyway? That is not this:
And in the nights of winter,
When the cold north winds blow,
And the long howling of the wolves
Is heard amid the snow;
When round the lonely cottage
Roars loud the tempest’s din,
And the good logs of Algidus
Roar louder yet within;
When the oldest cask is opened,
And the largest lamp is lit;
When the chestnuts glow in the embers,
And the kid turns on the spit;
When young and old in circle
Around the firebrands close;
When the girls are weaving baskets,
And the lads are shaping bows;
When the goodman mends his armour,
And trims his helmet’s plume;
When the goodwife’s shuttle merrily
Goes flashing through the loom,–
With weeping and with laughter
Still is the story told,
How well Horatius kept the bridge
In the brave days of old.
Daniel Hannan
Daniel Hannan is a writer and journalist, and has been Conservative MEP for South East England since 1999. He speaks French and Spanish and loves Europe, but believes that the EU is making its constituent nations poorer, less democratic and less free. We must have a referendum – and not just on the EU
By Daniel Hannan Politics Last updated: November 4th, 2009
140 Comments Comment on this article
It’s not chiefly about Europe – it’s about democracy. Regular readers will know that I have always seen the repatriation of jurisdiction from Brussels as a means to an end. Having got the powers back, we should pass them down to local authorities or, better yet, to individual citizens. I want decisions to be decentralised, diffused, democratised. I want open primaries, popular initiative procedures, elected sheriffs, self-financing councils, an end to quangos, recall mechanisms and, yes, referendums – lots and lots of referendums.
I have been campaigning since I was 18 years old for a referendum on Britain’s relationship with the EU – the referendum that David Cameron has now ruled out for the duration of the next Parliament. I can see his point of view: he doesn’t want to be distracted from the Herculean task of reducing the budget deficit. (I am sure, by the way, that this is a sincere motive. The assertion, made by some half-clever journalists, that the Tory leader was secretly relieved by the implementation of the European Constitution Lisbon Treaty, is false. I know for a fact that he did his best to retard Lisbon’s ratification until after our general election.)
Then again, as I say, this issue goes beyond Europe. The legitimacy of our representative institutions is at stake. Out of 646 MPs in Westminster, 638 were elected on the a promise of a referendum. True, the Lisbon Treaty is now in force. But there is nothing to prevent us having a referendum on whether we, as a country, participate in its provisions. After all, the 1975 referendum was a retrospective ballot, held to ratify the “better terms” negotiated by the Wilson ministry. I made the case for a referendum on Lisbon in this blog two years ago, and I haven’t changed my mind. (If you’ve forgotten what is so dreadful about the European Constitution Lisbon Treaty, by the way, read this).
We need a broad movement within the Conservative Party that will push for referendums, citizens’ initiatives and the rest of the paraphernalia of direct democracy. I don’t just mean a referendum on Europe – though, naturally, that is the obvious place to start. I mean full-on Helvetic people power, as adumbrated in this best-selling publication. I have returned to the back benches in order to concentrate on building such a movement.
Don’t misunderstand me: I voted for David Cameron as leader, I like him, and I reckon he’d be a million times better than Gordon Brown as Prime Minister. One of his strengths is that, unlike Gordon Brown, he doesn’t mind people disagreeing with him. Well, then. This Conservative is for a referendum: a proper, deep-cleansing referendum that will settle whether our country remains subordinate, or becomes self-governing. Now who will stand on either hand and keep the bridge with me?
YOU DON’T KNOW CAMERON THEN!!
LINK IN COMMENT SECTION…
9 responses so far ↓
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 11:45 am |
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/danielhannan/100015753/we-must-have-a-referendum-and-not-just-on-the-eu/
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 11:57 am |
http://www.gopetition.co.uk/petitions/referendum-on-repatriation-of-powers-from-the-eu-to-westminster.html
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:01 pm |
Ask Jack Straw.
(Sadly, James, most people seem to have missed the point that demographics is destiny. Jack understands it though and with his friends has plotted our destruction. Those Tories who think that they can just keep jogging along with the EU and their mass immigration agenda don’t realise that the next few elections will be the last in which they have the deciding vote, and with the EU ConTreaty this process will gain even more speed.)
BANG ON THE MONEY 2010s EUMED EXPANSIONISM WILL SEE WE ARE SWAMPED WITH MASS MUSLIM IMMIGRATION!
JUST HOW JACK LOVES IT!!
SIGNED UPTO MALCOLM RIFKIN TORY 1995 BARCELONA DECLARATION!
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:04 pm |
2007!!!
Shock waves
Posted by Richard Wednesday, July 11, 2007 Brussels
Like a tsunami, Barroso’s surprise claim that the EU was an “empire” is spreading out from its epicentre at Strasbourg, to crash against the shores of the British print media.
First in line is The Times which is running a lengthy piece today – and many more are to follow.
David Charter does the business for The Times, focusing on the British perspective, writing that, “Britain was told yesterday that it was part of a new European empire”, styling Barroso as, “the Brussels bureaucrat who would be emperor”.
We are told that “nervous aides” inquired after his press conference whether this description might feature in British media reports, while EUX.TV reports that Barroso’s spokesman, Johannes Laitenberger, asked some of the journalists present not to pay too much attention to the comments. In a desperate attempt at damage limitation, he tried the reassuring line that, “No one needs to have imperial nightmares.”
Too late though, the gaffe was out of the bag and, as Charter notes, Conservatives and Eurosceptics alike have been quick to exploit the commission president’s candour, to press Gordon Brown for a referendum.
Mark Francois, the Conservative’s shadow Europe minister, happily declared that, “The British public will be surprised to hear that we are now part of an EU empire,” adding, “anyone who thinks that we have been exaggerating in calling for a referendum on a revived constitution only has to look at what Mr Barroso has said to realise the scale of what is now being contemplated.”
Francois, whether he knew it or not, put his finger on the spot, as the “empire” claim came in response to a question from a Dutch journalist asking, what will the European Union be when the treaty-to-be had been concluded? Not a superstate, but an empire was the short answer, the longer version now up on U-tube.
Funnily enough, this is not the first time Barroso has used the E-word. In his speech at the 50th anniversary celebrations of the EU in Berlin, he referred to celebrating “the success of the European ‘empire of law’”. Not only that, he boasted, “We have created a new and better European political order. Now we must use this experience to create a new and better global order.”
Perhaps it was the lack of media reaction, even after the speech had been publicised by the commission, that lulled him into a false sense of security. But, if he didn’t realise the significance of what he had said then, he surely will today when all the “cuts” come in. This will haunt him for the rest of his tenure as emperor president.
My guess is that, when we come to write the history of the referendum campaign – for a poll that must now surely happen – this will prove to have been the turning point.
Pic by Anoneumouse. He’s back!
EXPANSIONISM FOURTH REICH!!
http://eureferendum.blogspot.com/2007/07/shock-waves.html
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:07 pm |
EUMED..PLANNED IN THE EARLY 70s AGAIN CAUSED BY OIL—SWAP SHOP——OIL 4 EUROPE AND THE UK..
THE EURO-ARAB PARTNERSHIP
SUMMARY
The Euro-Arab partnership favors the implementation of Islam in Europe, criminalizes any criticism of Islam and finally prepares a long term merger of the European Union with the Arab world.
Moreover, the European institutions have just created a new Foundation in order to perform these goals. It will promote change in education and culture with a large place to religion and the learning of arabic. Instead of focusing on science and modern knowledge, the European education will return to the early Middle Ages! The Foundation also aims to target the schools of journalism and to develop arabic TV channels in Europe. It means that this Foundation intends to influence children, scholars and journalists in the entire Europe.
These disclosures are so shocking that they seem incredible. Consequently, we extensively use links which report to the background papers.
1-EURO-ARAB PARTNERSHIP 2-FOUNDATION 3-CONCLUSION
-http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/europeanconstitution.htm——————————————————————————-
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:08 pm |
http://www.freeworldacademy.com/globalleader/europeanconstitution.htm
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:11 pm |
2007!!
Why we must demand a referendum on the EU
By Daniel Hannan
Published: 12:01AM BST 25 Jun 2007
Comments 94 | Comment on this article
Petition: Let the people decide
Daniel Hannan’s blog
Suppose – and you might not find this easy – that you were a committed Euro-federalist. Imagine that you wanted the EU to go the whole hog, totus porcus, toward statehood. What would you have most wanted to get out of the recent Brussels summit?
In fact, much of your work would already have been done. The EU currently possesses many of the attributes and trappings of nationhood: a parliament, a supreme court, a passport, a currency, a national anthem, a flag, external borders. There are, though, four more pieces to slot into the jigsaw before the EU can properly call itself a sovereign polity.
First, a head of state. Second, a foreign policy, complete with a foreign minister, a diplomatic corps and accredited embassies. Third, a system of criminal justice, including a European Public Prosecutor and a police force. Fourth, the “legal personality” of an independent government, which confers treaty-making powers and the right to sit in international associations.
All these things are in the draft “Reform Treaty” – along with the Charter of Fundamental Rights, the abolition of some 40 national vetoes, new powers for the European Parliament and a 30 per cent reduction in Britain’s ability to block new initiatives.
Regular readers will know that I’ve been predicting all this for the past year-and-half. It was obvious that the leaders of the EU planned to revive as much of the constitution as they could get away with. But they could hardly just turn up and sign: that would have given the game away. So, precisely as I forecast, they staged some faux fights, designed to simulate a re-negotiation.
I say this, not to swank, but to make an important point about the EU, namely that this is how it always behaves. When people vote “No” to closer integration – as they usually do, given the chance – their opposition is seen as an obstacle to be overcome, not a reason to alter course.
The purpose of the Brussels summit was to allow the seven EU leaders who had promised a plebiscite to tiptoe away from their pledges. Ireland and Denmark are lucky enough to have rules that trigger a vote whenever any constitutional change is proposed. But the other leaders have joined hands and sworn a terrible oath: no referendums anywhere, in case the sight of one country voting should prompt demand in others. We don’t want the voters picking up any ideas, hein?
I was wrong about one thing, though. I had assumed that, in order to sustain their line that the new text was different from the old, there would be some substantive changes. In fact, such alterations as there have been are decorative, not structural; emendations, not amendments.
This is admitted with startling frankness in the new draft, which emphasises the importance of changing the terminology: “The term ‘Constitution’ will not be used, the ‘Union Minister for Foreign Affairs’ will be called High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs and Security Policy.”
Behind the new nomenclature, however, almost nothing has changed – as those EU leaders who don’t have to back away from a referendum promise artlessly concede. “The fundamentals of the Constitution have been maintained,” says Angela Merkel. “The great part of the European Constitution is in the new treaty,” agrees José Luis Zapatero. “Thankfully they haven’t changed the substance; 90 per cent of it is still there,” echoes Bertie Ahern.
The main dissenting voice is, of course, Britain’s. Our ministers insist that the new draft is milder, because Britain has opted out of elements of foreign affairs and criminal justice. But we went through this exhaustively after Maastricht: a treaty clause trumps a declaration. When asked, the European Court always upholds the legal requirements of a treaty rather than the exemptions.
In two regards, the new draft is worse than the old. When the text was a constitution, it at least had a certain finality to it: further alterations would have required a cumbersome amendment process. Now, though, it contains an “escalator clause”, allowing Brussels to extend its jurisdiction without needing further treaties. At the same time, the French have taken out the commitment to free competition, rasing the awkward question of whether the EU now serves any purpose whatever.
We can look at the text from any angle. We can prowl about it, searching for a more flattering light. But we keep coming back to an unavoidable truth: this is the constitution on which all three parties – indeed, 98.8 per cent of MPs – promised a referendum.
Once again, we see that, as well as being undemocratic in itself, the EU traduces democracy within its member nations. That is why the referendum matters so much. And that is why you should add your name to our petition.
Daniel Hannan is a Conservative MEP for south-east England
Click here to find our referendum petition and add your name.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/personal-view/3640865/Why-we-must-demand-a-referendum-on-the-EU.html
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:32 pm |
DEMOCRACY DENIED!!
an example of Fabianism and why the name Fabians was chosen.
Fabius Maximus, ‘Cunctator’ (c.280-203 bc), was Roman consul for the first time in 233/2, won a victory in Liguria, was censor in 230/29, and consul for the second time in 228/7. In 218 he was opposed to war with Carthage, but after Hannibal’s victory at Lake Trasimene he was elected dictator. He proceeded to implement the strategy of refusing to be drawn into pitched battles, for which he earned the nickname ‘Cunctator’ (‘Delayer’) and which has become known as ‘fabian’ after him. The disaster at Cannae reinforced the wisdom of this approach and led to successive consulships for himself and his son in 215/14 and 214/13. During his fifth and final consulship in 209/8 he recaptured Tarentum and was chosen princeps senatus (‘Father of the House’). He lived on to oppose Scipio ‘Africanus’’ plan for the invasion of Africa and to attack him over the atrocities committed by one of his lieutenants in Locri. Renowned for his caution and conservative attitude, Fabius was rightly regarded as the man who denied Hannibal further victories in the field, at a time when even Rome’s resolution might have cracked. But he arguably carried his caution too far when Rome began to recover.
Comments: 94
We feel strongly that we should have a referendum as soon as possible, and hope that Gordon Brown will allow this to happen. Posted by Ronald and Judy Binstead on Thursday, June 28th 2007 23.40PM
R.A. & J.A. Binstead
on June 28, 2007
at 10:39 PM
Why cannot our politicians see that any refusal to allow electors the promised EU referendum just further undermines “OUR” Democracy? Indeed are we any longer Governed “Democratically”?
P E Field
on June 28, 2007
at 08:17 PM
Why is the European Union so bad for it’s populations that he politicians have to operate behind our backs, ignorign the rule of democracy? No wonder they don’t want a referendum because anythign this secretive and forced on us in such a way cannot possibly be for the benefit of the majority. If it was then a referendum would be welcomed by those who wish to impose this on us. Because teh arguments would stand up for themselves, an open debate would air all tehpoints and if it is such a good thing the people would vote for it and it would be given a mandate. As it is the politicos seem to feel that we don’t want an unelected body; the EU commission. An unelected President, or any other unelected officials. I wonder why? A referendum must be forced and another to decide our future within the organisation as a whole. It’s way past time we distanced ourselves from this self interest group of inwards looking politicians.
Steve Ipswich
on June 28, 2007
at 05:35 PM
Popular Democracy Triumps in America! The immigration bill just died in the Senate because so many people called in the Senate phone lines crash. Senators wanting to be reelected wisely voted NO.
M. Fernandez
on June 28, 2007
at 04:39 PM
Many people died and were injured to protect our sovereignty. The very least we can do is insist that their descendants have the chance to air their views in a referendum.
Councillor Susan Wade Weeks
on June 28, 2007
at 03:37 PM
We were promised a referendum, what is the government afraid of? Is all the backdoor manouvering necessary, or does it suit certain peoples objectives that a referendum could upset. This is a major constitutional issue which efects us all and we should have a say. We do understand the issues even if government thinks otherwise.
Peter Osborne
on June 28, 2007
at 11:58 AM
It is no wonder that the ruling elite of Europe hate the idea of popular votes. To ignore the French and Dutch results displays an utter contempt for democracy. The vote should be to leave this cesspit of corruption and incompetence.
Richard Conquest
on June 28, 2007
at 11:56 AM
The United Kingdom, Once the world,s mightiest Empire, now a vassal state of what has become the modern version of the old soviet union.May the good Lord forgive the traitorous politicians for allowing this to happen. i forecast civil unrest if not civil war.
Doug Jacques.
on June 28, 2007
at 10:25 AMEveryone should write to their MP and the Prime Minister, demanding a referendum on this issue. I would regard signing this constitution/treaty without the mandate of the country as an act of treason.
Graham
on June 28, 2007
at 10:14 AM
Want to make your views known? Well here’s a place you can start, petition the prime minister. The link is: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/EU-Constituion/ and here is the text “We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to refrain from signing any agreement to create a new European Union treaty without first holding a referendum to ascertain the opinion of the British public.” There are ony 487 signatories so far! So get voting now and circulate this to your friends, otherwise sure enough it will be produced as evidence that the population is not opposed to the treaty.
Pav
on June 28, 2007
at 09:28 AM
Promises, promises, promises: we were promised a referendum. It looks as if this is yet another broken promise. One hopes that the Conservative Party will have the courage to stop praising Mr Tony Blair’s introduction and administration of the teachings of Mr Eric Arthur Blair aka George Orwell. Let democracy be restored.
Roger Jones
on June 28, 2007
at 09:27 AM
The United Kingdom, Once the world,s mightiest Empire, now a vassal state of what has become the modern version of the old soviet union.May thegood Lord forgive the traitorous politicians who have allowed this to happen. i forecast civil unrest if not civil war.
Doug Jacques.
on June 28, 2007
at 09:20 AM
A good summary – well done! (Mark Mardell also refered to this article on his BBC blog). Having reviewed the arguments above for and against a referendum on the new Treaty, the positions can be summed up as follows: For (mainly EUrosceptics): We will win it. Against: (mainly EUrophiles): The masses cannot be trusted to understand and appreciate all the complex issues involved and may not vote correctly. We will lose.
Max
on June 28, 2007
at 09:00 AM
I agree that we should have a referendum.
Cllr. Eve Martin
on June 28, 2007
at 08:37 AM
Perhaps the Conservative Party will again take a petion out to the voters and demand a referendum
David Monk
on June 28, 2007
at 08:34 AM
May I repeat Helen’s question (posted at 7.18 am, 27/06/2007) ? Just how do you vote ?
Chohrge
on June 28, 2007
at 07:06 AM
The Government should abide by its undertaking to seek a referendum on the question of the future of the European Union constitution in whatever form that is manifest
John Bittleston
on June 28, 2007
at 12:56 AM
I feel strongly that a referendum is the only way forward. how else can ordinary folk to show just what we want?
wendy ross
on June 27, 2007
at 11:14 PM
I totally agree with Daniel’s comments. I am very concerned that the EEC has its own hidden agenda for those that are involved in its operation- It is a monster which is difficult to knock when the rewards are so high for those that are employed and benefit from the collossal spoils and dicate the policies.
PETER NORRIS
on June 27, 2007
at 09:59 PM
It is quite clear that Tony Blair has done this country a lot of real damage in order to secure a lucrative EU post for himself. There was a time before 1997 when that would have been regarded as an act of corruption. The fact that he got away with such an anti-democratic act was because of public apathy. The Public will however change their tune when Gibraltar is given to Spain and the Euro is forced upon us. It is probably also the end of the armed services as I cannot see servicemen signing up to risk their life for Brussels. I feel particularly sad for her Majesty as the Commonwealth will disappear and her subjects will now receive Mickey Mouse justice. Certainly this will lead to an increase in emigration on the part of white middle classes. Our only hope now is a ‘NO’ on the part of those states lucky enough to have democratic representation. What an outrage that the ‘Mother of Parliaments’ does not. In this respect, Gordon Brown is as spineless as his predecessor, but perhaps we can force his hand?
B Thomas
on June 27, 2007
at 08:57 PM
Essential referendum is held to determine the degree of public support, or lack of it, for the EU changes/proposals for the new EU Constitution/Treaty and their impact on UK’s laws and way of life.
Robert J Banister
on June 27, 2007
at 08:44
It is so disgusting that these politians go back on their word, but what can we expect after 10 years of spin and deceit ? How about a mass burning of the EU flag ?
R G Barton
on June 27, 2007
at 08:09 PM
I agree with Helen. Please can The Daily Telegraph provide a petition which is easy to find sign.
Peter Brent
on June 27, 2007
at 07:41 PM
I want to petiton against this iniquitous treaty but how?
David Burke
on June 27, 2007
at 07:38 PM
The Labour Govt.made a promise to this couintry of a REFERENDUM on whether Britain shoudl become a su bject state to the the EU, – The promised has been carefully forgotten and never mentioned nor anyof the drawbacks or the huge sums taken from us in TA and paid into the EU – without accoiunt of how it is used, or where it all goes.
margaret baker.
on June 27, 2007
at 07:34 PM
We are told MP’s are listening! If so why are they determined to avoid a referendum when so many are clearly worried about the handover of powers to the EU. Is it in MP’s remit anyhow? The powers are not theirs to hand over. Treason?
Tim Milling
on June 27, 2007
at 07:09 PM
I suuport the call for a referendum on the “reform treaty”
rgates@waverley.gov.uk
on June 27, 2007
at 07:05 PM
When will the people of this once astute nation WAKE UP! We are sleep walking into a Federation of European states. Demand a referendum NOW and stop our unelected masters in Brussels in their tracks.
Terry John Ward
on June 27, 2007
at 06:20 PM
We have to get the message across to the UK Government that the people want to have their say on this new EU Constition by a referendum.
Titian Evers
on June 27, 2007
at 06:19 PM
Whichever way you look at it, this is the new constitution on we must have a referendum. We must have a referndum.
David Fleming
on June 27, 2007
at 06:15 PM
The noose is set around the neck of the once great GB. Stripped and bound, gagged and blindfolded, deserted by the once faihful, the final hour seems to be at hand.Has no-one the courage to stand-up and save GB,or is it that we really do not care that all that we once held so dear,will be in a twinkel gone and lost forever. A referendum on this issue was promised – but what does that matter to those in power- nothing I fear. No – the answer is in the hands of the people demand your rights and say – enough is enough, we will stand no more!!
derek
on June 27, 2007
at 06:04 PM
We must wake up to where the Government is pushing us.
Lawrence Paine
on June 27, 2007
at 05:48 PM
Let the people speak in a Referendum.
John Roskill
on June 27, 2007
at 05:46 PM
Our ability to make our own laws is being taken from us by stealth and obfuscation.
Robert Sharp
on June 27, 2007
at 05:28 PM
We completely agree with the view that there should be a referendum on the EU
Barbara & Alan Blackley
on June 27, 2007
at 05:20 PM
We must have a referendum on any attempt to bring in the E.U. constitution, as promised.
Dr Robert J. Carmichael
on June 27, 2007
at 05:13 PM
once again we are being fed the line that this is a tidying up treaty that does not need ratification by the tax payer. This shows how the Eurofederalists hold the rest of in utter contempt.We must have a referendum.
steve craddock
on June 27, 2007
at 05:09
I find it difficult to understand why the majority of the British people do not recognise the dangers which are being built into the constitution, on top of all that has gone on before. How does one wake them up and prevent us all disappearing into a grey oblivion
A.J.Skivington
on June 27, 2007
at 04:53 PM
The public is being inundated with reports of Tony’s retirement instead of his failure to honour his promise of a referendum. Once again he has succeeded in hoodwinking many of the public and dishonouring the name of British politics.
Colin Wise
on June 27, 2007
at 04:37 PM
Yes we must have a referendum
David Crossman
on June 27, 2007
at 04:34 PM
If Brown calls a snap election, this should be one of the items in the manifesto.
Roger
on June 27, 2007
at 04:19 PM
You can sign this petition: http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/EU-treaty-NON/ Please pass around
giuseppe de santis
on June 27, 2007
at 04:00 PM
When is this government going to honour its promises? We have surely been promised a referendum on this issue -the question should be “when?”.
Eric Bird
on June 27, 2007
at 03:52
Give the citizens of Great Britain the chance to decide their own fate – we must have a referendum on the EU constitution
Edgar and Monica Bullman
on June 27, 2007
at 03:49 PM
The time has come when people want to have a say in all matters concerning the way their country in run, this is recognised in general and local elections – so what’s the problem? The EU needs to be elected by the people of the countries it represents, the co-operation on it’s direction is needed from the from both sides. Give it the respectability it now requires.
William Dugdale
on June 27, 2007
at 03:43 PM
We must have a referendum. It’s a disgrace to try and slip significant constitutional changes past the electorate without such. But we are used to the Labour dictatorship playing ducks and drakes with the constiutional status to their political advantage This one must be a step too far
J M R Watson
on June 27, 2007
at 03:33 PM
Will we ever have another chance to vote against a Federal State of Europe? Is it now or never? We must have a referendum.How can we empower the people of this country? Ian Peters
Ian T.Peters
on June 27, 2007
at 03:30 PM
The EU should have been strangled at birth. Like so many others, I was completely taken in by spin and downright lies.
Peter Worsley
on June 27, 2007
at 03:26
I fully agree with Daniel Hannan’s article we must have a referendum. What part of this does Brown not understand? WE WANT TO HAVE OUR SAY!
Denis O Reilly
on June 27, 2007
at 03:23 PM
I demand a Referendum over the EU recommendations/constitution as promised by the Labour Gov in their manifesto.
Diana Goodbourn
on June 27, 2007
at 03:09 PM
As always Daniel represents the views of the majority of us. He has our grateful support.
Delia Creedy
on June 27, 2007
at 03:04
How can our politicians allow this “convention” to be implemented through the back door? Why is the man-in-the-street not listened to? So many questions and no answers from the people who are meant to represent us.
dawn lee
on June 27, 2007
at 02:59 PM
Hannan is great.
bob lacey
on June 27, 2007
at 02:52 PM
With our rulers prepared to ignore promises for referenda and to ignore those that have taken place we are now headed for a Communist or Fascist State. Thank you Messrs Blair and Brown.
Paul Ledbrook
on June 27, 2007
at 02:46 PM
centurean2 // November 5, 2009 at 12:34 pm |
fabians will not be drawn into battle they just ignore you!